Talk:Fair use

The definition is radically problematic. It does not provide for the right under certain circumstances to copy by posting on the web or publishing, it provides a right for a defense for certain types of incorporations of copyrighted works into other publications without permission.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 22:29, 26 September 2007 (CDT)

That Japan has "similar national laws" regarding fair use is simply wrong. The Japanese legal system has no correlate to the four prongs. Rather than creating principles that courts then interpret on a case-by-case basis, they instead have opted to create amazingly detailed laws on what is recognized as Limitations on Copyright in Japan. In the same manner as other countries, however, their courts are frequently called upon to decide cases based upon that complex of limitations. Very few win.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 22:51, 26 September 2007 (CDT)

Thanks for the info on Japan, which I did not know. A legal protection that allows a person to do something is a right. It is not true that fair-use material has to be "incorporated into" something else-- that is NOT on the 4 part list. For example, copying a news story onto the web for the purpose of elicitng commentary is fair use. Richard Jensen 23:20, 26 September 2007 (CDT)

Wow, this make so clear to me just how wrong your thinking is about this matter. Incorporating a portion of a news story into a critical commentary on a blog, while providing a link to the remainder, would be fair use. Copying the entire article is absolutely infringing. Especially for popular blogs that make ad revenue who copy an entire article, they are opening themselves up to receive a take-down letter from the newspaper's lawyers. Keep it up and the take-down demand will be more than a demand. Copying over entire new articles to other sites without permission deprives the newspaper of the ad revenue it would otherwise receive by people clicking on the link in your blog post, the one that makes fair use of excerpts. Also, determinations of fair use are not just quantitative but qualitative. If you copy "the heart" of the news article such that people do not need to read it at the source, thus depriving the paper of revenue, and you are looking for trouble. Goodness, even Google News has this right.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 00:03, 27 September 2007 (CDT)

"Copying the entire article is absolutely infringing." No court has said so--this appears to be imaginary. Please cite some legal evidence. Richard Jensen 00:09, 27 September 2007 (CDT)

According to you, the following apparently does not exist:

1. "The amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole".
2. The 1961 Report of the Register of Copyrights on the General Revision of the U.S. Copyright Law cites examples of activities that courts have regarded as fair use: “quotation of excerpts in a review or criticism for purposes of illustration or comment; quotation of short passages in a scholarly or technical work, for illustration or clarification of the author's observations; use in a parody of some of the content of the work parodied; summary of an address or article, with brief quotations, in a news report; reproduction by a library of a portion of a work to replace part of a damaged copy; reproduction by a teacher or student of a small part of a work to illustrate a lesson; reproduction of a work in legislative or judicial proceedings or reports; incidental and fortuitous reproduction, in a newsreel or broadcast, of a work located in the scene of an event being reported.”[1]

Excepting the special teacher's exception - copying an entire article off-the-cuff one term for his class - or in legislative or judicial proceedings or reports, copying an entire news article snubs the law right to the wind. Lack of a court controversy over the fact of something existing does not imply it is fair use. It only says it was not taken to task.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 00:24, 27 September 2007 (CDT)

Steve--read the SONY decision again. Ity involved copying an entire movie. Richard Jensen 00:39, 27 September 2007 (CDT)

Sure, mere home recording in one's own home and for his own personal use and from one format to another was (barely) considered fair. The suit was against the creator of the technology, besides. But no one here is really talking about recording the World Series or re-runs of the Mary Tyler Moore Show off TV for their own use in their own home, are they? Moreover, making such recordings are no longer considered fair use. The exception has been made law and is not covered by fair use today.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 00:50, 27 September 2007 (CDT)

I'm pretty sure that Stephen has it correct since the advent of file-sharing networks and mp3s basically amounted to declaration of war against the RIAA (essentially this is the argument of "fair use" versus "copyright infringement"). I believe it is no longer the case that recordings or reproductions in whole are allowed. If you want you can start up almost any dvd and it will tell you the law before you can even watch the movie. --Robert W King 00:56, 27 September 2007 (CDT)

I'd also like to point out Richard that the way your most recent addition is phrased, it seems like it is more or less construed as a point of argument that should appear on a talk page and not in the main article space. --Robert W King 00:59, 27 September 2007 (CDT)

Just try taking those home recordings of the Mary Tyler Moore Show, digitizing them, and placing them on the web and see what happens.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 01:02, 27 September 2007 (CDT)

Additionally, I just want to make one more point: I personally would no longer reference any court case or news article which deals with fair use that predates the first case against Napster. I don't think any case before that reflects any kind of modern judgement. --Robert W King 01:07, 27 September 2007 (CDT)

My old VHS recordings used to have a huge warning about the FBI investigating unfair use. Actualy the FBI never did any such thing. It was merely Hollywood scare tactics. people like napster who put 100,000 songs on line better get a better lawyer than CZ! However for the millions (hundreds?) of CZ users in school wondering if they will go to prison if they copy one item, maybe we can help. (Anyone who plagiarizes in school may well get in real trouble--but not in the nonacademic world.)Richard Jensen 01:17, 27 September 2007 (CDT)

I get jokes. But in total seriousness it is our job to represent the law *as it is*, not as what we believe it *should be*. Technically, you could probably be pursued for one instance of copyright infringement. Would you be? Doubtful, but it doesn't change the fact that the laws are in place. --Robert W King 01:30, 27 September 2007 (CDT)

more scholars get hit by meteorites than get sued for copyright. there are two issues. CAN a person be sued? Almost anyone can be sued at any time--that's been the American way for 300 years. Will the plaintiff win? Not in a fair use suit against a student, school or non-profit organization like CZ. The law says people have a right to fair use-- indeed without it, there would be no reference books or university classes--imagine the professor having to get permission for every book he uses in preparing a course. Richard Jensen 01:37, 27 September 2007 (CDT)

Generally, people are very confused about what is fair use indeed and fair-because-I-think-it-is-fair use and/or fair-because-I-want-it-to-be-fair use and/or fair-because-I-personally-think-it-is-fair use.

Also, CZ is a web-publisher with a mission for people to re-publish and re-use it. That is a radically different animal from students and professors going about their business, and something most CZ editors are drastically inexperienced in, and no their .edu pages do not count.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 01:48, 27 September 2007 (CDT)

Encyclopedic

It's not very encyclopedic to say we don't know what we're talking about. So I made a positive statement instead of this: Legal definitions and the legal scope of public domain vary across the world, and it is not unusual for works to be public domain in one country and copyrighted in another. This lack of any international standard is a serious problem for internet publishing, where the applicable law is unclear and leaves internet publishers open to potential litigation. There is no such litigatation, and the "serious problem" is a gross exaggeration --there are no concrete examples given.Richard Jensen 23:25, 26 September 2007 (CDT)

Plagiarism

I added the plagiarism section because people get all confused otherwise about the difference between fair use/copyright issues and plagiarism. I have never heard of a LEGAL case under federal copyright law regarding plagiarism. There have of course been violation-of-copyright lawsuits (for example against DaVinci Code, settled in London in Brown's favour in 2006. see [2] for the details. Richard Jensen 23:34, 26 September 2007 (CDT)