Talk:Chemistry/Draft

I changed some words again to what I think is clearer: affinity is 18th century, oxygen is Capital O , not zero, and apparently the familiar html markup works. But I only got to the first paragraph, and i still think it sounds clunky. DavidGoodman 21:42, 2 November 2006 (CST)

yes, still needs lots more work, but it's getting better.Nancy Sculerati MD 23:12, 2 November 2006 (CST)

molecules

In the first para, is it intended to differentiate molecules from crystals and metals? Probably it is to early in the article to do that clearly. DavidGoodman 23:11, 5 November 2006 (CST)

That's something that I did not change from the original WP article (the inclusion of the word metal). I like waht you are doing and I think you should go ahead and change it to read better. Your work helps so much! I've been doing more on Medicine, because of slow and absent saves on the pilot, I've been working on a word document and will get it in sometime over the next day. I had a concussion in a car accident and so am not as speedy as I would like to be. Regards, Nancy Sculerati MD 10:27, 6 November 2006 (CST)

Now that more editors and writers are on board, the few of us at the first won't have to cover quite so much territory--I hope. All of us wanted to get as many articles as possible started, but I don't think I will be able to finish all I've started. I thought I would be using word, but Firefox 2.0 has an excellent very fast spelling checker Hope you're better. You might want to start the article for it.:) DavidGoodman 20:54, 6 November 2006 (CST)

Introduction

Taking the lead from the Biology article, "Biology is the science of life." I would like to suggest this article could be structured around the opening statement of "Chemistry is the science of material."

This follows from the Systems Theory model of the universe wherein components are linked by the flow of three (3) fundamental items:

• Energy (Physics)
• Information (Computer Science)
• Material (Chemistry)

On the map of General Systems Theory (GST), Biology is the next step in system complexity having components capable of accepting and delivering energy, information and material in a self-maintaining open system of the cell (the fundamental unit of life). The current introduction of the Chemistry article jumps directly into models of atoms and molecules on the pico- and atto-size scale. While I agree an understanding of what is happening at the "small" is necessary, these modules are only tools for plying the science of materials.

When I introduce "chemistry" to my university students by asking them to find a chemical in the room, they start hunting for a hidden beaker or test tube of colored liquid. The concept of "material" liberates them from thinking chemistry is only about the "small" and moves their concept of chemistry out of the laboratory. Your thoughts? --William Weaver 06:25, 18 December 2006 (CST)

I like that a lot. After all, it is both true (if not totally conventional) and makes the basic concepts of chemistry more accessible.Nancy Sculerati MD

The addition there of "interacting" should be considered: Chemistry is the "science of interacting material". Seems somewhat more appropriate as chemists dio not care about non-reacting agents :) Besides concurring with the definition that chemistry studies the INTERACTION between atoms and molecules it seems a very true notion. Robert Tito

opening statement

"Chemistry is the science of interactions of electrons of materials." Robert Tito

That change does not make sense to anyone who doen't already understand chemistry. I put it back the other way. Nancy Sculerati MD

I disagree here, what makes chemistry differ from physics is the basic interactions of electrons of atoms/molecules or generic material. If you forget the elementary electrons the basics of chemistry is harmed and the difference between physics and chemistry becomes more vague. Mentioning electrons at the core of chemistry makes it different from physics because there generally matter interacts, not only electrons. And yes maybe knowledge of electrons makes one bias, but forgetting the fundamentals makes one ignorant about chemistry as opposed to physics. That in my opinion is a bad beginning. Robert Tito I just have learned that two beams of protons moving at high speed and interacting upon collision belongs to chemistry and not to physics Robert Tito I stress out I do disagree with some of the latest additions as they are not correct in displaying the science of chemistry and its fundings. Dr. Robert Tito

Robert, I can appreciate your concern about the differences between Chemistry and Physics. As an Analytical Chemist, with specialization in spectroscopy, I'm often confused for a Physical Chemist and I don't seek to separate the disciplines of physics and chemistry. Chemistry is built with physics as a foundation, so it is impossible and not even desirable to separate the two. In my undergraduate program, I teach courses in all three disciplines of Physics, Chemistry and Computer Science and I admit and rely on my bias for General Systems Theory. When my students think of Physics, they think of the progression of:

• position
• displacement (delta position)
• time
• time displacement (delta time)
• velocity = displacement/delta time
• acceleration = velocity/delta time
• mass (the concept from chemistry of material)
• momentum = mass * velocity
• Force = mass * acceleration
• Work = Force * distance (displacement if conservative force)
• delta Energy = Work
• Energy = Kinetic (motion), Potential (position in field), Potential (mechanical, springs), Potential (chemical, bonds), Electromagnetic
• Thermodynamics = Work as function of the system variables of Pressure (Force/area), Volume (displacement^3) and Temperature (kinetic energy)

This larger view of Physics, including the mathematics of differential and integral calculus, vectors, dot products and cross products does not include a discussion of electrons. I don't share your view that Physics and Chemistry only differ by the basic interactions between electrons and atoms/molecules. I would value your thoughts. =] --William Weaver 20:38, 18 December 2006 (CST)