Talk:Heinrich Himmler

Analsadistic?

Is this an enlightening sentence?

The psychic process of dehumanization and extermination may be conceptualized as regression to the analsadistic phase of psychic development on the part of both inmates and S.S. guards of the extermination camps.

I think it is better to remove it. Also the "sadistic nature" in the lead. /Pieter Kuiper 18:54, 27 October 2007 (CDT)

this is a paraphrase of the leading historian on the subject writing in the leading history journal. Better keep it in for the readers who like psychohistory--it's hard to think of a better subject for this technique. Richard Jensen 19:19, 27 October 2007 (CDT)

"Sadism" is a specific paraphilia, with the most accepted medical definition being in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 4th Ed., of the American Psychiatric Association. It has been refined to exclude those who employ erotic pain as part of an otherwise functional sex life; the usual interpretation is that sadism, masochism, or assorted other paraphilias either become an absolute requirement to have sex, or become the entire sex life.

Note, however, that the term specifically relates to the association of the infliction of pain with sexual excitement. The most brutal torturer in history, if his acts triggered no sexual association, would not be, in psychiatric terms, a sadist.

There are a substantial number of reports indicating that Heydrich was a true sadist, such as accounts of his rough treatment of prostitutes at Berlin bordellos. Himmler tended to distance himself bureaucratically from the actual mistreatment; while death is not strictly part of sadism, it is notable that he fainted on viewing a genocidal execution.

Whether someone is a leading historian or not, I don't like to see scholars in one field redefining very specific terms used in another. Heinrich Himmler, I am confident, could be checked off on quite a few DSM-IV diagnostic codes, but I'd like to see specifics that he met the criteria for sadism. Otherwise, I recommend removing it.

For that matter, "analsadistic"? Definition? It paraphrases a developmental concept from Freud, which, to the best of my knowledge, is totally discredited. Howard C. Berkowitz 21:11, 27 June 2008 (CDT)

I don't care what Prof. Jensen says it is: it's the worst (and most ludicrous) type of psychobabble and should be removed instantly. If Prof. Jensen wants to put it into *quotations* and cite the "leading historian" by name and source for such a grotesque statement, then let it be upon his head. If you don't edit this in the next day or so, be assured that I shall. Hayford Peirce 23:03, 27 June 2008 (CDT)

Some people don't like psychohistory, I take it. How they explain the mass murderer of the Holocaust is not clear--what alternative explanations do they offer, and what scholarship do they cite? None at all, it appears. Letting ignorance triumph over scholarship is a bad way to run an encyclopedia. We have of that right now in the US re creationism and intelligent design and that sort of thing. Richard Jensen 00:45, 28 June 2008 (CDT)