Talk:Citizendium:Lead Paragraph

Hey guys,

Christo just made an interesting statement of the Jesus talk page and Gareth clarified it some moreconcerning the lead in our articles. For me this seems like what could be a major differentiating feature between WP articles and CZ articles. WP requirements that the lead become an "abstract" "definition" of what is to follow is probably one of the most destructive elements of the writing process. It breaks the flow of an article and more often than not, sets an antagonistic tone for the rest of the article. I would venture to say that this method is not an efficient method for introducing a reader to a subject.

Anyway, considering the controversy that can erupt in healing arts articles, I wanted to see how everyone feels about turning some variation of "the lead is not an abstract" idea into a format that we use on our articles. Matt Innis (Talk) 12:55, 26 February 2007 (CST)

Let me answer this on Talk:Jesus. --Larry Sanger 13:09, 26 February 2007 (CST)

I agree that the lead is not an abstract. It's the introduction and that's not the same. Further, I'd say that the article is not a list-but a narrative essay. I think we have to put our style consensus somewhere pretty quick, or we will be doomed to fight the recurrent battle of edits-people experienced at Wikipedia coming in and "correcting" everything, and then a whole re-establishment of convention. Without some guidelines, they -and people who are totally naive on a wiki, are left adrift.Nancy Sculerati MD 13:16, 26 February 2007 (CST)

Agree, and it isn't that it is their fault. We are all creatures of habit. I do think we can do this without alienating past WP editors. In fact, I would venture to say that most would be relieved by this type action because I am sure they feel the same way, just some on a less conscious level. -Matt Innis (Talk) 13:20, 26 February 2007 (CST)

One of the niceties of WP is that there are extensive "manifesto" type pages, describing in some detail the goals and philosophy of the project. It makes disagreements less arbitrary, so that instead of arguing "I think we should make the page x, and you think the page should be y," the argument is "You are not adhering to WP:NPOV, I am making changes to your edit." It's a better place to be arguing, IMHO, less prone to ad-hominem attacks.--Michael Benjamin 18:01, 27 February 2007 (CST)

I think it's a lot more advantageous to have a body of people interpreting a stated, documented philosophy than it is having ten or fifteen people pointing fingers at each other making insinuations. Larry, the CZ manifesto is brilliant, but seems like the philosophy of CZ is still evolving. I think it needs a little more meat on the bone.--Michael Benjamin 18:01, 27 February 2007 (CST)

Here's a modest proposal: we should import the WP manifestos and edit them to our liking.--Michael Benjamin 18:01, 27 February 2007 (CST)

By the way, I think the lead should avoid making unsubstantiated statements, but that it should attempt to summarize in a narrative fashion the concepts presented in the body of the article. Some of the topics are really broad--what should the lead paragraph about anemia say? The concept of a lead probably is more apropos of some topics than others.--Michael Benjamin 18:01, 27 February 2007 (CST)

Here's another novel idea--I have taken the liberty of creating a CZ:Lead page so we can house all this erudite discussion in it's own home, instead of looking for it on the Jesus page...--Michael Benjamin 18:01, 27 February 2007 (CST)