User talk:John Whiteford

Welcome and thanks

I'm just spending some time this morning thanking the newer/returned people who did weekend wiki work. So, thanks, nice to have you here! --Larry Sanger 08:20, 19 November 2007 (CST)

Orthodox Church

Hi John,

In reference to the change you made earlier saying the Orthodox Church does not embrace the same dogma as the Western Chruches who hold to the Nicene Creed, I have asked His Grace Bishop Longin of New Gracanica Diocese in full communion with His Holiness Patriarch Pavle, several Bishops of the Georgian Church (never got to ask Catholicos-Patriarch Ilia II personally but I was told of his position), my priest, Father Paisius of St Mary of Egypt in Kansas City, and numerous conversations with Russian and Greek priests in Kansas City and New York City in full communion with the Ecumenical Patriarch, and conversations with Hierodeacon Theodore Niklasson of the Georgian Orthodox Church. They all agree that the basic dogma embodied in the Symbol of the Faith (with the exception of the changes later instituted by the Roman Church) have preserved intact the same dogma as expressed by the Roman Church. What exactly is it that you think diverges from the Creed as held by the churches in the west and the Roman Church with the aforementioned exception of the Filioque? --Thomas Simmons 16:43, 23 November 2007 (CST)

"The Western Churches" is a much broader category than the Roman Catholic Church. Western Churches would include all of the Protestant Churches, that for example do not understand the affirmation of there being "One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church" in the same sense as either the Orthodox or the Roman Catholics. John Whiteford 17:02, 23 November 2007 (CST)

I think then that an historical review of the divergences would work here. Father Paisius (St Mary's of Egypt, Kansas City. MO, Serbian Orthodox Church, New Gracanica Diocese,) is of the opinion that "the key issues that separate us externally were addressed in your summation," (see comments in original article version). He went on to add later additions such as the Immaculate Conception of the Theotokos. (Strictly speaking this is held by the Latin Church only. I have never encountered it outside of that jurisdiction.) The aforementioned differences on the One Chruch also need clarification since many non-orthodox would say tha they do believe this and some version of Apostolic Succession. But I have never heard of those who do not believe in Baptism for the remission of sins. Have you got some examples?

A line by line analysis for the Creed and possible differences along with the Orthodox defintion would be a good idea, I think. --Thomas Simmons 15:27, 26 November 2007 (CST)