CZ Talk:Charter/Archive 2

This page is dedicated to drafting a charter for Citizendium and should only be edited by those eight Citizens elected to the drafting Committee. The talk page is also reserved for them to discuss the evolution of the document. Other Citizens, please comment on the dedicated thread at the Citizen Forum. Non-Citizens can comment in a separate thread at the non-Member Forum.

This is the final version of the document drafted by the Charter drafting Committee. It shall be subject to a public vote.

To do list

1. Identify our goals for the charter and for Citizendium. Ongoing: see the forum thread
2. Get the draft ready for the open discussion phase.

Done

1. Agree on Committee chairperson: Joe Quick
2. Agree on the basic Structure.

Auxiliary pages

The following subpages of this page have been set up to help the drafting process. The same editing restrictions as to this page apply there.

Brainstorm	Drafting procedures	Scope and structure of the charter	Things to address but not in charter	Definitions	Ecology-Economy	Archives	Editors, authors, and approval	Another subpage

Comments on Charter draft text

Real names section

second sentence is too detailed for charter. third sentence needs to be slightly revised to be more general.Martin Baldwin-Edwards 22:22, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

What about this? --Daniel Mietchen 22:39, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

I slightly changed your amendment.Martin Baldwin-Edwards 00:27, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm not enamored with the exceptions. Russell D. Jones 14:56, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Nor am I. Probably, we need to specify why exceptions can be made, and who/what will decide. I am not sure that the official accounts need to appear in the Charter, though. Martin Baldwin-Edwards 21:04, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

I removed the exceptions. --Daniel Mietchen 21:36, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

OK, but as far as I know there have been a few legitimate exceptions. They need to be allowed for, by some procedure (e.g. special application to the Chief Constable). Martin Baldwin-Edwards 00:47, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Ratification of this charter

To me, this is not a subheading under "Electorate", but at the same level. --Daniel Mietchen 22:31, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Judicial process

I made some changes here, trying to be more absolute.Martin Baldwin-Edwards 00:27, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Professionalism

Some major changes here in the last sentence. I tried to make it simultanously universal yet with some flexibility. Martin Baldwin-Edwards 00:27, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Workgroups

The only statement about workgroups is that the Editorial Council shall have power to establish a workgroup policy. When workgroup policy needs to change, you're going to have to amend the charter which (rightly) should be a lot harder than changing an ed council policy. Russell D. Jones 14:58, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Author

An author is any account. This current definition posits a whole class of people who have accounts but are denied the rights and privileges of authors. Russell D. Jones 15:02, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Yes, this seems to be the case. Presumably the idea is to cast inactive authors as non-authors, but this is not a good idea. Is there a need to define an author as someone who has written something on CZ, leaving as Citizens those who have not? Normally, a Citizen in any state system has full legal rights. Therefore, it would make more sense to say that only those who write or edit are citizens, but this also is not a good idea... I suggest deleting this. Martin Baldwin-Edwards 21:32, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

I removed the distinction between Author and Citizen. --Daniel Mietchen 21:46, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Mission statement

If the current version is to be replaced by some variant of what is being discussed on the forum, we should not forget to introduce the term Citizen on its first mention. --Daniel Mietchen 16:33, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Just rephrased the mission statement and added the definitino of Citizens to its first mention, in the Professionalism section. --Daniel Mietchen 22:45, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Being Bold

I agree with the statement "A basic Professionalism rule, however, is that large deletions or revisions, or renaming pages other than for clear errors, should not be made without a reasonable attempt to get consensus on the Talk Page." but do not think it should go into (this section of) the charter. --Daniel Mietchen 16:51, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

It might be an example of "interim guidance". Where should it go? Howard C. Berkowitz 17:20, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

I put it into Collaboration now. --Daniel Mietchen 21:05, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

I made some revisions to the last version of Being Bold, trying to make it a little more certain for authors. Martin Baldwin-Edwards 00:41, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Objectivity

I oppose the existence of this section and also the use of the word. I recommend the idea of inclusiveness as an alternative to neutrality, which also has been problematic.Martin Baldwin-Edwards 21:28, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Since we are supposed to agree on the draft presented for the discussion period, I have removed the section and paste it in here:

===Objectivity===

Information presented objectively is based on careful, unbiased and documented observation. When conflicting information exists, enough background must be given that the reader can understand the merits and weaknesses of the major alternatives. The Citizendium is not a place for advocacy, nor for advertisement.

--Daniel Mietchen 23:17, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. Let's try to draft an alternative here. The starting point must be the title. Suggestions? I'll offer "Non-partisan, inclusive knowledge" Martin Baldwin-Edwards 00:45, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

== Amending the Charter ==

Did I miss some discussion on how to do this? The current formulation looks highly problematic and over-prescriptive for the future, to me. Martin Baldwin-Edwards 00:50, 12 November 2009 (UTC)