Talk:Culture of Japan: Difference between revisions

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(→‎People who watch anime wrote this article: I think that the principle author of this article, User:John_Stephenson, is probably better positioned than anyone currently on the wiki to write on)
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''Surely'' those teenaged girls are not the best representatives of the culture of Japan? --[[User:Larry Sanger|Larry Sanger]] 02:00, 26 July 2007 (CDT)
''Surely'' those teenaged girls are not the best representatives of the culture of Japan? --[[User:Larry Sanger|Larry Sanger]] 02:00, 26 July 2007 (CDT)
:I changed it as I have a feeling people want to see something 'traditional' at the top of this article. :) The girls have decamped to [[Japanese popular culture]]. [[User:John Stephenson|John Stephenson]] 05:19, 18 February 2008 (CST)


Also, with regard to the proliferation of subsections, please see [[CZ:Article Mechanics]]. --[[User:Larry Sanger|Larry Sanger]] 02:02, 26 July 2007 (CDT)
Also, with regard to the proliferation of subsections, please see [[CZ:Article mechanics]]. --[[User:Larry Sanger|Larry Sanger]] 02:02, 26 July 2007 (CDT)


==Deletion of 'Nihonjinron' section==
==Deletion of 'Nihonjinron' section==
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::I strongly endorse using Japan (Culture) or Japan, culture.  The article is about Japan, not about culture in general. [[User:Richard Jensen|Richard Jensen]] 06:19, 17 September 2007 (CDT)
::I strongly endorse using Japan (Culture) or Japan, culture.  The article is about Japan, not about culture in general. [[User:Richard Jensen|Richard Jensen]] 06:19, 17 September 2007 (CDT)


== People who watch anime wrote this article ==
{{inflammatory}}


I am serious!. No one expects to see a picture of a punk, or a black-metal head when an article about the culture of England or Sweden is opened. The culture of Japan is not there youth culture, it can only be there traditional culture. It has to be a representation of a collection of static, slowly changing cultural and artistic expressions. The writer of this article is confusing culture with fad. A fad is temporary, it mimics culture. The young people on this photo are members of something else besides there subculture. This is the culture they hear about in school, see there elders express and will certainly try to emulate when they grow up. A fad does not last longer then a decade.
I think that "Japanese culture" would be a better place for this article. After all, we now have [[Japanese popular culture]], [[Japanese media]] and [[Japanese language]], so this would seem a sensible change. --[[User:Tom Morris|Tom Morris]] 11:45, 9 July 2008 (CDT)
:OK, though there might be a subtle shift in meaning: the present title means 'Japanese culture in Japan', whereas 'Japanese culture' would logically include Japanese communities abroad (e.g. in Brazil). Not that that's a problem. [[User:John Stephenson|John Stephenson]] 23:10, 18 July 2008 (CDT)


instead of popular culture which is a word without any solid meaning, lets use the words youth culture, media and pop music. The word populare culture is the same as fad. [[User:Micha van den Berg|Micha van den Berg]] 13:15, 23 November 2007 (CST)
==A few changes==
:I have to absolutely agree.  This article needs heavy revision, or essentially a blank-and-rewrite. --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 13:22, 23 November 2007 (CST)
I rearranged some sections to try to make it read better and put the cosplayers back in lower down; there was no need to delete this image altogether. See [[Japanese popular culture]] if you want to significantly expand this aspect of Japan; however, I think that cosplayers are just as much a part of Japanese culture as the kimono, probably more so (geisha girls and people in kimono are the sort of thing you see in tourist areas, but the culture today is far more forward-looking).
::We need to remove the idea of popular culture from the encyclopaedia vocabulary. It serves no purpose. Classical music has between 4 - 6 times more listeners then heavy metal, the market for art and paintings is much larger then that for comics. There are more people who paint, then people who make, write and draw comic books. Just like some films do not achieve a high box office when they come out, but are still know 30 or 40 years after they where released. We need to make a distinction between youth culture, fashion statements and culture. The cultural definition of the 80's is the music that people will still listen too 40 years later. The Beatles made a culture statement because they are still loved by many (young) people, and influence temporary society. But while they (the Beatles) are a cultural statement there fashion movement was not. [[User:Micha van den Berg|Micha van den Berg]] 16:16, 23 November 2007 (CST)


:Blank and rewrite would be the best solution. I also suggest we increase the amount of workgroups to six with: Sociology, Anthropology, Literature, Music, Visual arts and Sports so that we have enough different angels to cover Japanese society broadly enough. [[User:Micha van den Berg|Micha van den Berg]] 16:16, 23 November 2007 (CST)
I also deleted "In the late 1980s, the family was the focus of leisure activities, such as excursions to parks or shopping districts" from the 'leisure time' section as I didn't really understand its significance or relevance. [[User:John Stephenson|John Stephenson]] 05:19, 18 February 2008 (CST)
:This Wikipedia 'popular section' has now completely gone, as it was a dull as dishwater and poorly sourced (what 1986 study? And who cares?). I've put a new section in with a reference as a start. [[User:John Stephenson|John Stephenson]] 22:47, 18 February 2008 (CST)


I think that the principle author of this article, [[User:John_Stephenson]], is probably better positioned than anyone currently on the wiki to write on this topic. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 00:03, 27 December 2007 (CST)
== No Go? ==
The game of [http://senseis.xmp.net/ Go] seems to me to be an aspect of Japanese culture that needs mentioning. [[User:Sandy Harris|Sandy Harris]] 12:19, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

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 Definition:  Set of traditions, pastimes, artistic expression, use of language, belief systems and so on that distinguishes Japan from other nations. [d] [e]
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Surely those teenaged girls are not the best representatives of the culture of Japan? --Larry Sanger 02:00, 26 July 2007 (CDT)

I changed it as I have a feeling people want to see something 'traditional' at the top of this article. :) The girls have decamped to Japanese popular culture. John Stephenson 05:19, 18 February 2008 (CST)

Also, with regard to the proliferation of subsections, please see CZ:Article mechanics. --Larry Sanger 02:02, 26 July 2007 (CDT)

Deletion of 'Nihonjinron' section

I have deleted this section from the end of the article. Definitions of the term I've found (outside Wikipedia!) seem to imply that these theories about Japanese culture may have a racial edge to them. As I'm not familiar with the topic, and since what I've also found from a casual internet search seems pretty controversial, I've got rid of the section. I have other books on Japanese culture which are more factual, and will use these in the future. John Stephenson 09:47, 27 July 2007 (CDT)

Notes on Japanese culture

These should be covered:

  • soto 外 / uchi 内 - outsider/insider view of the world
  • honne/tatamae - what is intended vs. what is said
  • ie 家 - traditional household family structure
  • gift-giving

John Stephenson 22:15, 27 July 2007 (CDT)

Moving to Japan (Culture)

I am proposing to move this article to Japan (Culture) in line with our priority page and to make searches more likely to hit. If anyone does not wish me to move this article to the above location (or has a better title or good argument for this article remaining Culture of Japan, please respond here. If I have not had any comments by Wednesday of this week I'll go ahead and move it.

Lee R. Berger 09:29, 16 September 2007 (CDT)

I thought that Culture of Japan was the preferred CZ way of naming articles. Also, Japan (Culture) is vaguer: does it mean Japanese culture in Japan, worldwide, both? Does it include cultures in Japan that are not Japanese? (e.g. there are a lot of South Americans in Japan). Does it refer to the attitude of the Japanese to culture in general? I think 'Culture of Japan' specifies that this is about the culture of the Japanese people within Japan. John Stephenson 05:52, 17 September 2007 (CDT)
Not a problem, I'm just trying to get a feel for how we are going to list all of the articles and this one came up as the test! Anyone -other comments from editors and authors?

Lee R. Berger 05:56, 17 September 2007 (CDT)

I strongly endorse using Japan (Culture) or Japan, culture. The article is about Japan, not about culture in general. Richard Jensen 06:19, 17 September 2007 (CDT)


Text here was removed by the Constabulary on grounds that it is needlessly inflammatory. (The author may replace this template with an edited version of the original remarks.)

I think that "Japanese culture" would be a better place for this article. After all, we now have Japanese popular culture, Japanese media and Japanese language, so this would seem a sensible change. --Tom Morris 11:45, 9 July 2008 (CDT)

OK, though there might be a subtle shift in meaning: the present title means 'Japanese culture in Japan', whereas 'Japanese culture' would logically include Japanese communities abroad (e.g. in Brazil). Not that that's a problem. John Stephenson 23:10, 18 July 2008 (CDT)

A few changes

I rearranged some sections to try to make it read better and put the cosplayers back in lower down; there was no need to delete this image altogether. See Japanese popular culture if you want to significantly expand this aspect of Japan; however, I think that cosplayers are just as much a part of Japanese culture as the kimono, probably more so (geisha girls and people in kimono are the sort of thing you see in tourist areas, but the culture today is far more forward-looking).

I also deleted "In the late 1980s, the family was the focus of leisure activities, such as excursions to parks or shopping districts" from the 'leisure time' section as I didn't really understand its significance or relevance. John Stephenson 05:19, 18 February 2008 (CST)

This Wikipedia 'popular section' has now completely gone, as it was a dull as dishwater and poorly sourced (what 1986 study? And who cares?). I've put a new section in with a reference as a start. John Stephenson 22:47, 18 February 2008 (CST)

No Go?

The game of Go seems to me to be an aspect of Japanese culture that needs mentioning. Sandy Harris 12:19, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

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